Local Honduran television on the internet
Mel Zelaya announcing his intention to disregard the Supreme Court's decision
June 25, 2009
A Honduran friend has uploaded some local Honduran television programs so that people from other countries can view it. He has promised to try to upload more.
Most importantly, "Mel and his removal" is the current government's explanation of exactly what happened, why it happened, and why it was legal. He also has 66 minutes of the Tegucigalpa rally on July 1 where an estimated 70,000 people attended.
All of the programs, of course, are in Spanish so they will probably not get much mention in the international media. If you understand Spanish, please check it out. He has promised to continue to add programs as he can.
USTREAM Catracho-Gol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For those of you who use Twitter or Facebook, you may want to get the link out to your Honduras friends outside of Honduras.
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24 comments:
LG,
I am not even Honduran and I feel frustrated with CNN Espanol and the rest of the world calling this a coup. Does anyone care to use their dictionary ? This is actually new and has no history of such to compare to. Honduras is not in any Political crisis. The OAS, UN and EU wanted it to be. They punished Hondurans by cutting off the monetary fundings because it was OK for Mel to keep the money in his private accounts as long as he plays along what the rest of the gang members want him to. Is this democracy ? I am just worry that can Honduras withstand such pressure being so depandent on foreign aides ? I am so proud of you all but it will be you all who has to be united till the end ! You will go down in history proud !
Thanks for linking to these Honduran tv reports. We have basic cable here in Michigan and no Spanish Channels...all we are getting all day long is urgent updates on the Michael Jackson child custody situation! I will show these to my wife and suegra, although they've been reading the Honduran newspapers on-line. (This is the first time I've seen my mother-in-law EVER using the computer!) Thanks again, and keep up the good work.
ps--I could not care less about your dogs or chickens, although the tutorial on 'how to hack open a coconut using a dull machete' was pretty cool!
LG - "Ahah! Now El Verdadero has given himself away. I can't imagine any Honduran in Honduras or even the US on either side of this issue giving a flip about Sarah Palin resigning, especially at this critical moment for Honduras."
Ummm....if you think that Hondurans in the U.S. don't give a "flip" about Sarah Palin, why should the U.S. or any of the nationally community give a "flip" about Honduras? Your ignorance continues to prove why your blog is much better when its about gardening.
Also, I never claimed to be Honduran or even be in Honduras. But I can tell you that I know Hondurans (I guess thats the new thing to say now, "I have friends..."), who could honestly careless about the situation, so I would stop your groupings and labelings.
I can honestly appreciate both views a long as they take into consideration the opposing side. I think its hilarious that you guys don't see that "ElVerdadero" is a mere mockery of the unbiased group that has become the majority of posters of this blog. It went from "I didn't diliberately leave out any pro-Mel articles (despite them being all over the internet)" to "Mel is a SOCIALIST."
It's ammusing and ElVerdadero will continue as long as there is something to parody, you dirty ol communists...
Hi Elverdodero,
Do you enjoy what you are doing on this blog or every blogs related to Honduras ? I am impressed with your energy and time spent on the issues, the country and the people you do not even care or have any interest in. I can't figure out what is your motive ? Why not direct your efforts and energy to something more constructive and leave us the "unintellectual " group of people who ocassionally talk about chicken, gardening and perhaps some politics when our brain cells are working ? Thank you for your time and effort and I think you need a therapist to figure out where does all the anger comes from. May peace be with you !
I've just read a report in the USA press that says that Sarah Palin is stepping down from the post of Alaskan governer so that she can spend more time in the lower 48 states developing her contacts in order to run for the Presidency in 2012!
Laugh - I spilt coffee all over the keyboard!!!
Should make ElVerdadero's day, I think!
Hey, lay off of el verdadero. He's just bitter because he went to some fancy, anti-American school that he thinks we should all be in awe of, and despite that 'wonderful, superior education' he received, he's pushing a broom somewhere making $8 bucks an hour.
And just to clarify, both major political parties in Honduras are basically center right. The difference between those of us in the US that care about what happens in Honduras and this loser is that we have the best interests of the Honduran people at heart, he's only upset that another leftist dictator want-to-be has been taken down.
When those of us that actually care about the Honduran people see the news, we know the plazas and the streets that are filled with demonstrators. El V is somewhere a long way away and doesn't care about what Zelaya has already done to the people in Honduras or is trying to do now.
"I'm willing to negotiate with the Honduran government and not pursue constitutional change," says Zelaya, from somewhere other than Honduras.
Where was that willingness over the last year of his term?
Well, it's obvious that El V has a problem with right wing power grabs, but has not problem whatsoever with left wing power grabs.
The sad thing is that he really has talked himself into thinking that he is more intelligent than anyone who disagrees with him.
"President Ma Ying-jeou has criticized the coup in Honduras which has seen the Honduran President Manuel Zelaya forced out of the country. Ma made his remarks in a speech in the National Assembly of Panama on Thursday.
Ma said that Taiwan, as a democratic country, condemns the removal from power of a democratically-elected leader."
Jajajajajajajajajaja!!!!! How embarrassing! First Micheletti lies about Mel's resignation letter. Then he lies to the people about whose recognizing his bogus shoot em up takeover. What's next. Everyone gets free popsicles if they bow down on Sunday?!?!?!
And what's this about leaving the OAS?!?! I guess its back to the dark ages...
The more you talk, the more you reveal about your own bitterness. Most people on the right don't have trust funds or anything more than they can earn for themselves. The richest people in the US tend to be liberal, look at the guys funding the Democratic party. I'm sorry your family was poor and that you seem to both covet and detest money at the same time.
What you don't seem to be capable of understanding is the fact that it wasn't just a non-binding poll. It was in direct opposition to the Honduran constitution and was the most recent example of Mel breaking the law and it was a poll he didn't have the authority to execute. If he didn't respect the constitution and the checks and balances it provided then, what makes you think he would respect it later?
The military didn't depose him, the Honduran government did. The military didn't take over, they followed constitutionally sound orders and arrested him. Then they screwed up and deported him, giving the air of a military coup.
As far as Chavez invading, he doesn't dare pull troops out of Venezuela. He has trampled on their constitution and private property rights for too long. Without the military keeping people in line, he's toast, so no chance of him riding to Zelaya's rescue, sorry to tell you.
In all of your rambling, I haven't seen anything yet that resembles a coherent point concerning why Honduras did anything illegal in deposing Zelaya, other than offending your leftist sensibilities.
Their constitution calls for a vote to indict and remove the president in specific cases of breach of duty and they did that. In the case of the removal of the president, the president of congress shall become the new president, and they did that.
They did violate the provision that states no Honduran citizen shall be forcibly deported to a foreign country. I understand why they did it, but they should have kept him in Honduras and I am sure they are wishing they had done it now. There should be some form of consequences for that.
They have suspended the constitutional right to freely circulate for a certain time frame right now to combat violence arranged by Nicaraguan and Venezuelan operatives. They did it legally, as the constitution does provide a mechanism for suspending certain parts of it, and they followed that in a transparent manner.
I lived in Honduras for two presidents, Flores and Maduro and both of them where rumored to be corrupt, but neither of them pulled the crap that Zelaya pulled and tried to pull. Hondurans are notorious for rolling over and taking it when the government screws them, which happens on just about a daily basis. The fact that they are so united and determined in this gives me a sense of pride that is a bit puzzling to me since I am clearly not Catracho. Like LG says, if Chavez and his cronies succeed they will probably never do anything like this again.
You mock "friends" in Honduras, but I have plenty of them. We stay in touch via Skype, email, Facebook and Hi5. Some of them are here in the US and some of them are in Honduras and they are behind the new government to a man. Not one of them is opposed to it. Not one.
And despite what another poster said, I don't think you need a therapist, I just think you need to grow up a bit. And learn to spell or at least spell check. It's bad form to mock people for being unintelligent and then write an epistle containing spelling and grammar, not to mention logical, errors.
ElVerdadero, you forgot to mention following: "Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said: All rumors abnout Israel recognition of the new president are wholly unfounded" (yahoo news 3 July)
Political support for Honduras: NONE
Economic support for Honduras : NONE
Rallies for democracy and peace may look nice, but they don't feed mouths.
LG: thank you for posting a link to the Honduran Constitution. I looked through it, with my poor Spanish aided by Babelfish, but I could not find anything about how a President can be removed from office. Until I see that in print, I can not accept the argument that the President's removal was legal. Those who claim it was legal should provide clear proof to support their claim. LG, you have often said that the support of the majority, as evidenced I suppose by polls or the size of crowds in the street, means a democratic process was followed. I disagree. This could also be termed mob rule. Polls showed the majority of Americans did not support GW Bush at the end of his term, but it would not have been a democratic process had the army forced him out of the country.
Read the constitution again. The particular provision states the number of diputados that have to vote to remove him. I'll try and find the exact article and post it here.
el mero verdadero, am i correct, that u stated this is a Right-wing power grab?! now things are clear.
If you stop feeding stray animals they soon go away and leave you alone. Maybe if we did the same EV he would,too.
Dan,
Read article 239 and tell me where in that article is said that it does not include the President. Look also for some provision about need for hearings or impeachment process.
You may come back to say that Zelaya was not trying to alter term limits. The problem is that he was trying, ilegally, to write a brand new consitution. So, he was not only trying to alter the clause about term limits, but also all the other "set in stone" articles.
another great link for honduran tv for those outside the country is www.viewmy.tv select north america as region, then honduras as country and on the left is a great selection of channels.
Was watching a few days before the coup and say the old pres on a rally introducing candidates for the election i figured as my spanish isnt the best.
love ur blog, a great slice of a place i called home for awhile, stay safe.
Looks like we’ve got EXPERTS on coups here on the blogs.
Coups do not exclusively end with the death of the previous regime head. In fact, coups themselves are not tools exclusive to those who wish to remove a head of state, but rather, a head of state, even one elected through elections, can utilize a coup to consolidate itself in power by banning/closing/abolishing congress/parliament/etc. and claim a higher degree of power.
If a coup itself is used to topple the previous regime, the leader(s) may in fact be sent to house arrest/political prisoner, sent to exile (be it forced, or self-exile due to fear of security or to establish a counter-coup and lead legitimization campaigns against de facto rules) , or indeed: killed. And even then, it is untrue to even believe that a coup de'etat will end with the a military junta coming to power. In fact, a coup can be orchestrated to remove monarchies and institute republics, to give power to someone else, be it a military dictator, or a civilian dictator, or even promote early elections.
Examples of past coups and self-coups, are those carried against the last queen of Hawaii, orchestrated by European and American businesses (to maintain their profitable commercial trade/privileges), establish Hawaii as a republic and work to the progressive annexation by USA. The queen herself spent a periods of her life in house arrest, until she lost influence and the annexation became irreversible by her efforts.
Haiti: Jean Bertrand Asritide, became president of Haiti through elections, was removed from power by a coup, went into exile, only to be reinstated as President after three years in absence. In early 2000s, he ran against for Haitian presidency, won, only to be deposed on a foreign back coup in 2004. He was forced into exile to South Africa, where he currently resides.
Alberto Fujimori launched a 1992 self-coup to shutdown congress and bypass the legislative and judiciary branches of gov. to impulse actions he deemed necessary to face off against the problems facing Peru, even at the expense of suspending the constitution.
So please, stop saying that this is not a coup, because the military are not ruling through a junta, or that Zelaya was not killed. It is preposterous not to call the utilization (by a corrupt, belligerent congress, to boot!) of the military to depose a publically elected official. If what the population, really wanted to do, then perhaps a referendum to oust public officials should’ve been held, or congress set formal and public accusations against Zelaya, begin an impeachment process. Then we would’ve seen a true respect of the law, and real democracy at work. However, only delirious people like those of you here that support the coup dare deny the nature of this heinous act.
"El Nuevo Herald" has reported that that nice man Mr. Chavez has just ordered the closure of 285 TV and radio stations in Venezuela.
http://www.elnuevoherald.com/ultimas-noticias/story/489541.html
Would that great protector of freedom of speech Mr. El Verdadero or any of his like-minded friends care to comment?
Just for fun,
Article 42 of the Honduran constitution provides for the loss of citizenship rights to any Honduran who (section 5) initiates, promotes, or aids in a proposal to extend term limits or re-election of the president. Zelaya's actions cost him his legal benefits and rights as a citizen.
Article 238, (section 3) states that to be president of Honduras, one must be in possession of citizen's rights, which Mel no longer does so he can't be president.
Article 239 prohibits a president from holding the office twice. Since Mel has lost his citizen's rights and is no longer president he can never again hold the position, even if his rights are reinstated.
Article 313, (section 2) gives the Supreme Court the right to begin proceedings against high ranking government officials. It is interesting to note that it was amended in 2003 to remove the clause that required the National Congress to be a part of the process in initiating proceedings. The Supreme Court had the right to order his arrest and have the military carry it out because...
Article 272 requires the military to protect the concept of term-limits and non-reelection of the president. That means the military didn't conduct a coup, they were carrying out a court order and doing their constitutional duty.
For clarity, Article 373 declares that ONLY the National Congress can even propose a change to the constitution, and it has to be a specific change, not some nebulous "rewrite the constitution."
Article 374 states that 373 is not amendable, nor are the articles dealing with the national territory, the form of government, the term limit of the president, the prohibition on a president serving more than once, and the requirements for president are not amendable.
Just to play devil's advocate, article 102 does prevent the forced deportation of a citizen, so maybe there is something there, but then again if article 42 prevails, he had no rights as a citizen so 102 has no jurisdiction.
To everyone who said what harm did the non-binding vote have (it was in direct violation of a Honduran law --recently passed in answer to Mel's arrogance-- that prohibited any government sponsored polls from taking place 180 days from a national election) just read article 373. Only the National Congress could do it, not some tribunal that Mel wanted to create.
The only question that remains is what did he plan on doing by rewriting the constitution? Since the majority of the constitution is amendable, he either wanted to change the national territory, the form of government, or allow himself to continue in power.
Most people lean to the later, even though I think that any of the three would probably come under the jurisdiction of article 42.
And just for good measure, Article 239 states that any public official who promotes an alteration to the way presidents are limited immediately ceases to carry out any elected or governmental duties. By his very actions, Zelaya removed himself from the presidency.
Lastly, he already is in violation of Article 42 (section 4) by admitting to the Honduran media that he committed electoral fraud by buying votes in the general election, which disqualifies him from office of presidency.
What isn't clear is the exact path to follow to remove him, but since it is clear that he is no longer able to serve as president, the SC acted in the manner it thought to be best.
Notice, El V, that I didn't mention socialist or socialism anywhere in this comment because it doesn't matter what his ideology is. Both the left and the right have produced horrible dictators. What does matter is the Honduran constitution and the people of Honduras.
Dan, that was the reasoning and the legality behind the removal of Zelaya as president. There are other avenues to pursue against him which would cause him to vacate the presidency according to Article 41 by having his citizens's right suspended by being convicted of a crime, and they could still got that route, but it will take time.
He wasn't arrested before the morning of the vote because no one wanted to do it. They probably wanted him to back down and they would live with him until his term ended, but he forced their hands.
Keep up the good work, LG
How does a non-binding resolution even come close to rewriting the constitution?
Jeremy,
Just to add on another point. There are some people arguing that he was denied due process.
The courts gave him plenty of warns that he was acting ilegally and he had many opportunities to make his case.
Courts do not have to warn before taking actions, including (and especialy) issuing arresting orders. And I haven´t see any evidence or, even a claim, that the SCJ are refusing some appeal or resource that he may have under the law or that they are denying him legal council.
From his side, we only hear arguments that try to portrait this as if the military has just decided on its own to oust him. Something that is clearly, at this point, a lie.
In fact, we are also hearing from him that he intends to go ahead with his ilegal atempt to rewritte the constitution.
To anonymous 2:17
You ask how does a non-binding resolution even come close to rewriting the constitution?
Article 42 of the Honduran constitution provides for the loss of citizenship rights to any Honduran who (section 5) initiates, promotes, or aids in a proposal to extend term limits or re-election of the president.
I would think that a President that has taken all measures available (including ilegal ones like raiding a quarter) to make a poll about the issue was clearly promoting it, don´t you? Or do you think that he was hoping that the "NO" would win?
Anonymous 2:17 even the intent to promote a referendum that would change presidential election law is against the constitution. It result in immediate stoppage of any and all duties of the person promoting it, including the president. Article 239 and 42 are the pertinent ones here, but it is also dealt with in Article 4 and Article 374. The SCJ doesn't have to do anything, as the constitution is written, Mel basically resigned.
If George W. had tried to hold a ballot initiative to keep himself in power at the end of his term, and ignored every court order, lawyer, and congressional proclamation, what would the US have done? Probably impeach him. Unfortunately, Honduras doesn't have an impeachment process spelled out, only the fact that what he did makes him ineligible to continue as president, so the SCJ had to step in and act as they though best, in accordance with the Constitution.
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